", PAT: In other words, "Could I pay women who have drug problems to stop having babies?". And they had more. The sneaky idea here is that the blacksmiths, the giraffes, they made it happen. I want her to be able to look back on her life one day, maybe when she's getting interviewed, I don't know, and be able to say that, "Yes, my mom was there for me 100% without a doubt." PAT: And at a certain point, I noticed over my shoulder Barbara's crouched down and she's got her phone out and she's taking a picture of this just perfect little scene. PAT: Which I find kind of hard to believe but, then again, I must have read at least 100 news articles as I was reporting this story. JAD: When rats have more of this protein, they will act more motherly. And when he examined it, he noticed that there was a syringe hole there. JAD: How do these simple little traits get passed forward? Oh, that's a lot of potatoes. Yeah. Also, thanks to Carl Zimmer whose latest is Evolution: Making Sense of Life. JAD: I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. These are women who love their children, who sought help. Radiolab is on YouTube! CARL ZIMMER: At this really marvelous place called the Vivarium. That doesn't matter. SAM KEAN: If you have a starving daddy, it turns out that the baby actually gets some sort of health benefit. Right away, people accused her of targeting women at their weakest moment and enabling their drug abuse. Radiolab: Parasites Transcript For copyright reasons we can't provide a transcript of the WNYC Radiolab feature on parasites. In any case, what they saw at the end of all this counting wasWell, first of all, what they saw was this pattern that rat pups who got licked a lot as babies, when they grew up, they licked their babies a lot and the rat pups who didn't get licked a lot, when they grew up, they didn't lick their babies. PAT: In this magazine article, Barbara even said, quote, "We don't allow dogs to breed. Famine again, and these changes would just bounce back and forth. But according to Kammerer, here's what happened when he heated up the toads little cage. Maybe more. CARL ZIMMER: More information about Sloan at JAD: Yeah, we're exploring questions of lwhat can you pass down to your kids and their kids? Well, lets not get too excited too fast because we have a story to tell and this tale leaves me a little queasy. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? DESTINY HARRIS: As you can see, I like to talk. ROBERT: Or how much humidity it preferred. SAM KEAN: The sperm carries these marks to the next generation. See, this is the story of science that doesn't get told. CARL ZIMMER: He's not just talking about toads anymore, he's gone way beyond toads. Well, it was a zoo where there was all sorts of experiments going on. How was this woman allowed", BARBARA HARRIS: "To walk into the hospital and drop off a damaged baby and just walk away with no consequences?". They like to hang out in the water and the females like to lay eggs in the water. We went to the foster home and went in. ROBERT: And rewrite the so-called rules of genetics. DESTINY HARRIS: Oh my goodness. Because there is more data, more information about the people of verkalix, going farther back into the past than you can find almost anywhere else on Earth. You mean, if you had a starving grandfather, you would be a healthier boy for the because you had a starving grandfather? PAT: It would be wrong to assume the women Barbara talks about on TV [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: These women don't just have one and two babies. Just until they hatch and then 'til they go off. JAD: His big idea, as you might know, is that what a person does in their lifetime could be directly passed to their kids. Listen Jan 27, 2023 Birthstory A sperm, an egg, two wombs, four countries, and money. That's how I've always looked at it. ROBERT: So you think you can get deep down? PAT: The moment I really felt like, "Whoa," was when we started talking about PAT: The little baby that we keep hearing in the background of everything. JAD: And I know fate is gonna give them a couple random mutations in those genes. That was nice. You've got these toads who hate water. JAD: You got your good parents and your bad parents. I mean, for one thing, Barbara's white and Destiny's black. People can't just will themselves into a more perfect form. [laughs[ So yeah, it's embarrassing, but I believe everything happens for a reason. SAM KEAN: You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? PAT: She just knew, "This is my daughter.". PAT: Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara BARBARA HARRIS: That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Who, together, pledged more than $150,000 to her program.]. But this stuff you're telling me about Sweden feels very grim in a certain way. LATIF: This is Radiolab. ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, Daytime Talkshow: You get them $200 each, which they can spend on crack. Kammerer puts on a suit and he walks off into the mountains Outside Vienna on a Rocky mountain trail. MICHAEL MEANEY: Yeah, you can't touch that. ROBERT: Okay, so lets get going and stick with your boy, Lamarck, just for a sec. ROBERT: That's Sam Kean again. If your grandpa didn't starve, instead he lived through great times. This whole toad thing, to the Darwinian faction, it didn't scan really. If you've already had a kid, you can be sterilized. Yes, he was retarded. ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: To any drug-addicted woman who will agree to have no more babies. That's my little girl. JAD: Michael and Frances looked inside the brains of these rats and what they saw was that the rats who had been licked a lot as babies, they had more stuff in their head. And youre saying that part of the DNA is covered up? So, somehow, by some chemical mechanism, starving grandpa, back when he was about 9 to 12 years old, turned out to be a good thing. When Emil gets to be eight, I'm cutting him off. So we did stop. MICHAEL MEANEY: So the great rat nightmare comes true where the females become their mothers. Or is it? You're finishing college, right? They didn't have grains. DESTINY HARRIS: Are you going to kick it? LATIF: Its so good that it makes you not want to trash the house, you know what I mean? Yes, but creating an assumption that there is a class of people who don't deserve to procreate, who aren't worthy of procreating the human race, leads you down a path that we should have great concern about. They began to grow these all puffy things on their hands. JAD: No, not brain cells. ROBERT: Interestingly, the church has also kept track of the farmers' SAM KEAN: How much they were growing each year. JAD: Yes. Like shed give the women a choice. With NPR's Rough Translation. PAT: And as soon as she got there to pick him up, she could tell that something was wrong. ROBERT: They won't grow much on the outside, but on the inside OLOV BYGREN: That is the time where the sperms are developing. He thought it worked with humans, too. JAD: So imagine the DNA in that brain cell. Yes. Maybe more. Radiolab is a radio program broadcast on public radio stations in the United States, and a podcast available internationally, both produced by WNYC.Hosted by Latif Nasser and Lulu Miller, each episode focuses on a topic of a scientific and philosophical nature, through stories, interviews, and thought experiments.. Radiolab's broadcast edition airs as an hour-long program each week while the . My name is Jean Kean. That, in a sort of ass backward way was Michael's question. I mean, they didn't have porridge. And according to Barbara, the majority of the women she pays are white. ROBERT: Telling some genes to turn off now, other genes to turn on. It's only the mechanisms are not so clear. I'm Sam Kean's dad. They wanted to see basically the effects of starvation on multiple generations. I'm Carl Zimmer's daughter. I just saw them as child abusers. We talked to her for a little while and At a certain point the social worker pulls out a stack of papers. She was totally an oops kid. JAD: If the genes are the bottom floor, then this layer on top is sometimes called the epigenome and that thing can change based on your experiences. You have to look at one cage, say, are they licking? And Barbara and Destiny walked me out to my car. Kammerer, for one, was sent off to work as a sensor for the Austrian military. She got one. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of someone halfway across the world. I make a difference to her. I guess retard. CARL ZIMMER: Around 1908, he started publishing all of these results. PAT: And she says oftentimes the women who want help have a really hard time finding it. Radiolab 50.3K subscribers Subscribe 29 1.5K views 6 months ago On this episode, the case that pushed one Supreme Court justice to a nervous breakdown, brought a boiling feud to a head, and. PAT: The way she saw it, the state, the federal government, somebody BARBARA HARRIS: Should say, "You're not doing this. Radiolab: From Tree to Shining Tree LISTEN Three guests: Suzanne Simard, a professor of forest ecology and teacher at the University of British Columbia, Jennifer Frazer, a science writer that has a blog called The Artful Amoeba, and Roy Halling, a mycologist. BARBARA HARRIS: They were seven and eight at the time. That's how we ended up with four of them. Move on to the next cage yes, no? Like. ROBERT: Instead of dying at 40, I'd live to 70? It's a guided audio tour through cities where Radiolab Ken Burns and others. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. You know, just take a little peek for themselves, and every time SAM KEAN: Kammerer said no, they were his specimens. We are working to provide transcripts for as much of our programming as we can over time. It seemed to have been passed down for multiple generations. All rights reserved. I have to be creative.". And Barbara and Destiny walked me out to my car. These people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children!]. Destiny says before she was born, her mom had four other girls. So they can grab onto the female and hold tight while they're mating. 01:04:34 - Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. Twitter: @wnycradiolab Language: English Contact: WNYC Radio 160 Varick St. New York, NY 10013 (646) 829-4000 Website: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/ Email: radiolab@wnyc.org Episodes Golden Goose 2/17/2023 More Or is it? I like you, I get the sense that there's a lot of warmth in you. ROBERT: But the story he told us begins around 25 years ago. To fellow named Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, chevalier de Lamarck. That's the headline for his talk, and then CARL ZIMMER: Right below the headlines says, "Scientist's great discovery which may change us all.". Move on to the next cage, yes, no? Okay, and then I just had to accept it. I don't have the biggest boobies in the world. PAT: And in 1989, when the story we're telling now started, she was living in California, in Orange County. JAD: Just to be sure, we asked Frances Champagne what she thinks of this data. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: He had no idea about DNA. And right now, I'm student teaching. That is impossible, so far as we know, but there seems to be this layer on top of the genes. You know, inside these cells, in the center, coiled up in little spools, is the DNA. I decided to have a press conference in my front yard to announce what I was doing. Here, Kammerer's was saying, "You can do this even on a physical level.". They have found very similar effects for smoking, for instance. On the one hand, she says, immediately, cheques started arriving. Watching this, I couldn't help but think that Destiny's very existence is probably the most interesting argument against what Barbara is doing. Serotonin gets into the brain cells, and according to Michael unleashes A whole series of molecular events inside the cell. I know! In those books you can read everything about the citizens of verkalix, going back hundreds of years. Peanut butter, there we go. SAM KEAN: What's happening during this time is that you're setting aside the stock of cells that you're going to draw on in the future to make sperm cells. She asked my opinion and that's what I'm giving. ROBERT: A few years later, there'd be a harsh winter. Life is hard.". The kingdom archive. ", And I called my husband again at work and said, "They want to know if we want to take the baby." PEJK MALINOVSKI: It says "registrera", register. And were trying to think about how do we keep it the same in a lot of ways, but also how do we let it grow into something beyond what it was originally built to be. I'm graduating in December. Just don't have any more children because, at that point, I didn't really know any of them. ROBERT: Just for those years. And I packed up my stuff, it's pretty much done. They lived longer lives, something like 30 years on average. Well, I mean, Hitler thought that if you were Jewish, that you had given up the right to be a mother and hed sterilize people as well. So she told me Barbara had another baby and BARBARA HARRIS: Did we want it? ROBERT: It's a little odd, actually. And Barbara found herself returning to a thought she'd kind of always had. That's Sam Kean again. And eventually, over the millenia, what youd get, is a creature with a very long neck. I mean, it's pretty common but like, here's a for instance, my dad from my entire life had this thing where if someone was whistling, he would. And she's a complete nut. I wont say too much more except it includes one of my favorite kind of scientific parables that like Ive ever heard. All of our writers are dedicated to their job and do their best to produce all types of academic papers of superior quality. Who, together, pledged more than $150,000 to her program.]. BARBARA HARRIS: And I knew that the only way I was going to get a daughter was if I went and became a foster parent and asked for one. Mamaw was the one I'd come to see. Then she goes, "Oh wait, I didn't give birth to you. Test the outer edges of what you think you know. JAD: Who now works at Columbia University. He actually coined the word biology, too. Well, this is it! SMITTY HARRIS: He was just You know, most babies are kinda peaceful, he was never really peaceful. If you start smoking when you're 10, 11 something like that, you end up having children with more problems. ROBERT: What a name, you've got to like this guy. What do you mean? ROBERT: So if they saw somebody who was starving as a kid in 1820, they could then see, "Well, when those people had children and grandchildren, did anything change? Could you just tell us what you are doing now? They both say that they actually often forget that they're not biologically related. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. PAT: Because when a woman uses heroin while she's pregnant, the fetus gets hooked on it too. Kalia came too. Kick off certain hormonal systems. ROBERT: They would experience these wild changes from harvest to harvest. PAT: That's a lot of people. Well, I guess I was thinking we could just start at the beginning. I don't like to upset people. Were just talking about toad, I thought. I think the Swedish data are really, really strong, and very reliable. What's he talking about? Nobody has a right to do that to a baby. The bit of DNA that will give this baby when it grows up the instincts to be nice to its baby, and lick that baby. Barbara started finding herself on panels with women who'd use drugs during their pregnancies. A little village? The authoritative record of programming is the audio record. That, in a sort of ass backward way was Michael's question. And the key point is that it wasnt something inborn in them. Yes. The team that creates each episode, including hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, are master storytellers. JAD: Do you have any theories for how this tongue is tickling the DNA, or whatever it's doing? Inheritance | Radiolab Podcast 4,710 views Apr 8, 2022 Radiolab 43.8K subscribers From the Radiolab podcast: How your grandfather's diet can affect your lifespan, heart health and even. [chuckles]. And I told Destiny I was thinking about this and asked her about it. Like Id be like, Weve got the keys, were gonna trash the house., LATIF: Anyway, we think about that all the time and I was just talking to Lulu about that and she was just like, You know, theres a radiolab about this.. [laughs[ Exactly. I wonder how much you believe in it. Right below the headlines says, "Scientist's great discovery which may change us all.". MICHAEL MEANEY: Yeah, it drifts into something like a shopping channel. They lived longer lives, something like 30 years on average. PAT: So by now it's 1994, and Barbara is thinking PAT: You know? Just sing. The neural chemical signal that gets activated during licking, is serotonin. So here's what you're going to notice. And if you haven't, you can choose to have an IUD, or an implant put in which will last for several years. A couple of days later, I had already bonded with her so much, it was as if I gave birth to her. But I take it that we have more control over our destinies and our kids' destinies than we would've thought. ROBERT: You cant say that. I mean, when you think of Kammerer, there was a report in science outlining a theory about how Kammerer's toads got these characteristics that invoked these epigenetic inheritance and imprinted genes and it made it plausible. Whole lifetime of stretching. Olov told us, take heart disease. They like to hang out in the water and the females like to lay eggs in the water. And he was going through withdrawal. I guess retard. ROBERT: Do you know anything about the other four? The critical part of this Is that all these changes wake up this little gang of proteins. Yeah, it was a very attractive theory to them in Moscow. So then the one that's in trouble, so thats one of, So I guess you could say to yourself, "Seven out of eight of these kids did all right?". He had one remaining midwife toad. And I've got say, I'm feeling pretty good about this show so far. Truth is, we dont know precisely how this happens but somehow the experience of starvation marks the DNA. MICHAEL MEANEY: I was an undergraduate student. JAD: I think all parents do this, is that you slip into this Lamarckian delusion that JAD: What you do with your kids can somehow rewrite all of that. I could have turned out like some of the other kids. And um PAT: Doctors would later explain to Barbara that Destiny's mom had been addicted to drugs while she was pregnant. PEJK MALINOVSKI: It's not very politically correct, huh? Yes, no, okay, move on to the next cage, yes, no? But wouldnt it be nice if thats how it worked? [ARCHIVAL Clip, Panel: You don't think that they should have their children back?]. OLOV BYGREN: Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. CARL ZIMMER: He actually named his daughter Lacerta, which is a genus of lizard. MICHAEL MEANEY: Kick off certain hormonal systems. All jokes aside. Then, Carl told us about this research that showed Well, he couldn't quite remember the details. I mean, he hates water. We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. I know I've been joking a lot in this interview, but I mean it with all that I am. The event that really sets this story in motion, the set of events, happened a few months after Barbara had brought Destiny home. ROBERT: Are you near the Arctic Circle or OLOV BYGREN: My home village was 10 miles North of polar circle. I dont know. PAT: Nobody's arguing that women should do drugs when they're pregnant. According to Frances, it's not just sitting up there perfectly preserved, it's in the middle of the cell, it's crowded. That was the implication, except Kammerer tried to defend himself by saying "Do you think I'm a Dummkopf, or an idiot, because that's what I would have to be if I left a forgery with ink standing around openly in the laboratory where so many of my enemies would have entry?". Thyroid hormones then get into the brain and they turn on certain neural chemical signals. Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. Sincerely, Jennifer.". Started with the tongue. Thats just the cold logic of Darwinian evolution. I know what I'll do, I'm going to set up a terrarium for them and I'm going to make it hot, really uncomfortably hot. But, this hour were gonna fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence. She said, "Well, she's just beautiful and she has lips like a baby doll." ROBERT: Although, you know, sometimes that your grandfather's suffering helps you. And in one day, we can imagine, he gets curious. Isaiah would sleep and he would scream. JAD: See, this is the story of science that doesn't get told. She's not offering treatment, she's not offering counseling, and there are programs that do that. And she says oftentimes the women who want help have a really hard time finding it. When you first hear about this, what goes through your mind? JAD: We all know this, that there are cycles of abuse or whatever. SAM KEAN: No, they did not have them on land. Methyl groups are pretty sticky, they're hard to get off. And when she had a baby. In pictures, he has that, you know, that crazy Einstein fuzzy hair thing. Okay, and then I just had to accept it. That's how I've always looked at it. Are you nine? I tell you what I'm going to do though. But a year later, the social worker called again. She asked my opinion and that's what I'm giving. Love with as listeners and enabling their drug radiolab inheritance transcript for how this happens somehow! They have found very similar effects for smoking, for one thing, even! Do their best to produce all types of academic papers of superior quality of scientific parables that Ive... 200 each, which is a creature with a very attractive theory to them in Moscow test outer. Are pretty sticky, they did not have them on land strong, and money 're not biologically.! Us about this, what goes through your mind helps you uses while. Can spend on crack, sometimes that your grandfather 's suffering helps you her about it are not so.! 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For copyright reasons we can over time Barbara found herself returning to a.. Talking about toads anymore, he could n't quite remember the details KEAN: much... That, you 've got to like this guy biologically related Ken Burns and others actually named his Lacerta... Joking a lot in this interview, but I take it that we have really! The cell not very politically correct, huh rules of genetics as much of our are. Programming is the audio record News: to any drug-addicted woman who will agree have! Mom had been addicted to drugs while she 's pregnant, the majority of genes. Harsh winter that the blacksmiths, the social worker called again okay, so lets going! I just had to accept it but somehow the experience of starvation on multiple generations she oftentimes... `` you can see, this is the story of science that does n't get told happened when he up... And eventually, over the millenia, what youd get, is serotonin pretty much.! 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